B2T Connection: Serving Stability and Performance in Deep Transformers
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Abstract (arXiv)
From the perspective of the layer normalization (LN) positions, the architectures of Transformers can be categorized into two types: Post-LN and Pre-LN. Recent Transformers tend to be Pre-LN because, in Post-LN with deep Transformers (e.g., those with ten or more layers), the training is often unstable, resulting in useless models. However, Post-LN has consistently achieved better performance than Pre-LN in relatively shallow Transformers (e.g., those with six or fewer layers). This study first investigates the reason for these discrepant observations empirically and theoretically and made the following discoveries: 1, the LN in Post-LN is the main source of the vanishing gradient problem that leads to unstable training, whereas Pre-LN prevents it, and 2, Post-LN tends to preserve larger gradient norms in higher layers during the back-propagation, which may lead to effective training. Exploiting the new findings, we propose a method that can provide both high stability and effective training by a simple modification of Post-LN. We conduct experiments on a wide range of text generation tasks. The experimental results demonstrate that our method outperforms Pre-LN, and enables stable training regardless of the shallow or deep layer settings. Our code is publicly available at https://github.com/takase/b2t_connection.
Key facts. Cited by 16 papers in the map (data through 14 Oct 2026). Builds on 33 of its 41 references that are in the map. First posted on arXiv 1 Jun 2022.
Builds on
33 of 41 references.
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Citing papers per year: 2023: 2; 2024: 2; 2025: 6; 2026: 6.
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- 2025The Curse of Depth in Large Language Modelscited by 62
- 2023Spike No More: Stabilizing the Pre-training of Large Language Modelscited by 52
- 2024Mix-LN: Unleashing the Power of Deeper Layers by Combining Pre-LN and Post-LNcited by 37
- 2024Self-attention Networks Localize When QK-eigenspectrum Concentratescited by 19
- 2025HybridNorm: Towards Stable and Efficient Transformer Training via Hybrid Normalizationcited by 16
- 2025Stability of Transformers under Layer Normalizationcited by 5
- 2025GPAS: Accelerating Convergence of LLM Pretraining via Gradient-Preserving Activation Scalingcited by 2
- 2025Looking to Learn: Token-wise Dynamic Gating for Low-Resource Vision-Language Modellingcited by 2
- 2026Quantifying LLM Attention-Head Stability: Implications for Circuit Universalitycited by 2
- 2026Transforming Rank: How Architecture Navigates the Spectral Pathologies of Depthcited by 2
- 2023Why "classic" Transformers are shallow and how to make them go deepcited by 1
- 2026GeoNorm: Unify Pre-Norm and Post-Norm with Geodesic Optimizationcited by 1
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- 2026Understanding the Parameter Space Geometry of Transformers Encoding Boolean Functionscited by 1
- 2025Stack Transformer Based Spatial-Temporal Attention Model for Dynamic Sign Language and Fingerspelling Recognitioncited by 0
- 2026CascadeFormer: Depth-Tapered Transformers Motivated by Gradient Fan-in Asymmetrycited by 0
- 2026Why Post-Norm Transformers Collapse: Attention Amplification and Gradient Repair Failurecited by 0
- 2026Why Post-Norm Transformers Collapse: Attention Amplification and Gradient Repair Failure10 Aug 2026
- 2026Transforming Rank: How Architecture Navigates the Spectral Pathologies of Depth15 Jul 2026
- 2026CascadeFormer: Depth-Tapered Transformers Motivated by Gradient Fan-in Asymmetry25 Jun 2026
- 2026Understanding the Parameter Space Geometry of Transformers Encoding Boolean Functions7 Jun 2026
- 2026Quantifying LLM Attention-Head Stability: Implications for Circuit Universality17 Feb 2026
- 2026GeoNorm: Unify Pre-Norm and Post-Norm with Geodesic Optimization29 Jan 2026
- 2025Stability of Transformers under Layer Normalization10 Oct 2025
- 2025Looking to Learn: Token-wise Dynamic Gating for Low-Resource Vision-Language Modelling9 Oct 2025
- 2025GPAS: Accelerating Convergence of LLM Pretraining via Gradient-Preserving Activation Scaling27 Jun 2025
- 2025Stack Transformer Based Spatial-Temporal Attention Model for Dynamic Sign Language and Fingerspelling Recognition21 Mar 2025
- 2025HybridNorm: Towards Stable and Efficient Transformer Training via Hybrid Normalization6 Mar 2025
- 2025The Curse of Depth in Large Language Models9 Feb 2025
4 more
- 2024Mix-LN: Unleashing the Power of Deeper Layers by Combining Pre-LN and Post-LN18 Dec 2024
- 2024Self-attention Networks Localize When QK-eigenspectrum Concentrates3 Feb 2024
- 2023Spike No More: Stabilizing the Pre-training of Large Language Models28 Dec 2023
- 2023Why "classic" Transformers are shallow and how to make them go deep11 Dec 2023
- 2025The Curse of Depth in Large Language Modelscited by 62
- 2023Spike No More: Stabilizing the Pre-training of Large Language Modelscited by 52
- 2024Mix-LN: Unleashing the Power of Deeper Layers by Combining Pre-LN and Post-LNcited by 37
- 2024Self-attention Networks Localize When QK-eigenspectrum Concentratescited by 19
- 2025HybridNorm: Towards Stable and Efficient Transformer Training via Hybrid Normalizationcited by 16
- 2025Stability of Transformers under Layer Normalizationcited by 5
- 2025GPAS: Accelerating Convergence of LLM Pretraining via Gradient-Preserving Activation Scalingcited by 2
- 2026Transforming Rank: How Architecture Navigates the Spectral Pathologies of Depthcited by 2
- 2023Why "classic" Transformers are shallow and how to make them go deepcited by 1
- 2026GeoNorm: Unify Pre-Norm and Post-Norm with Geodesic Optimizationcited by 1
- 2026Understanding the Parameter Space Geometry of Transformers Encoding Boolean Functionscited by 1
- 2025Stack Transformer Based Spatial-Temporal Attention Model for Dynamic Sign Language and Fingerspelling Recognitioncited by 0
12 most cited of 14 All 14 (JSON)
- 2026Why Post-Norm Transformers Collapse: Attention Amplification and Gradient Repair Failure10 Aug 2026
- 2026Transforming Rank: How Architecture Navigates the Spectral Pathologies of Depth15 Jul 2026
- 2026CascadeFormer: Depth-Tapered Transformers Motivated by Gradient Fan-in Asymmetry25 Jun 2026
- 2026Understanding the Parameter Space Geometry of Transformers Encoding Boolean Functions7 Jun 2026
- 2026GeoNorm: Unify Pre-Norm and Post-Norm with Geodesic Optimization29 Jan 2026
- 2025Stability of Transformers under Layer Normalization10 Oct 2025
- 2025GPAS: Accelerating Convergence of LLM Pretraining via Gradient-Preserving Activation Scaling27 Jun 2025
- 2025Stack Transformer Based Spatial-Temporal Attention Model for Dynamic Sign Language and Fingerspelling Recognition21 Mar 2025
- 2025HybridNorm: Towards Stable and Efficient Transformer Training via Hybrid Normalization6 Mar 2025
- 2025The Curse of Depth in Large Language Models9 Feb 2025
- 2024Mix-LN: Unleashing the Power of Deeper Layers by Combining Pre-LN and Post-LN18 Dec 2024
- 2024Self-attention Networks Localize When QK-eigenspectrum Concentrates3 Feb 2024
12 newest of 14 All 14 (JSON)