Scaling with Collapse: Efficient and Predictable Training of LLM Families
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Abstract (arXiv)
Effective LLM training depends on predictable scaling of key quantities -- such as final loss and optimal hyperparameters -- with model and dataset size. Qiu et al. (2025) recently showed that this predictability can extend beyond scalars: whole training loss curves can *collapse* onto a universal trajectory after a simple normalization. What remains unclear is whether this phenomenon persists for LLM families trained under *practical scaling recipes*, where width, depth, learning rate, batch size, and weight decay are scaled jointly. We show that it does: loss curves collapse across scales precisely when optimization hyperparameters are set optimally for the given data budget, in accordance with recent empirical scaling laws. Collapse therefore emerges as a signature of compute-efficient training. We demonstrate two applications at scale: (1) deviation-from-collapse provides a sensitive, early diagnostic of training pathologies, and (2) predictability of collapsed curves enables early stopping in large-scale hyperparameter tuning. Finally, we train a competitive LLM family, *Celerity*, using these insights, establishing collapse as an effective tool for developing efficient LLMs.
Key facts. Cited by 9 papers in the map (data through 14 Oct 2026). Builds on 84 of its 110 references that are in the map. First posted on arXiv 29 Sep 2025.
Builds on
84 of 110 references.
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50 most cited of 84 All 84 (JSON)
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Citing papers per year: 2025: 1; 2026: 8.
9 papers.
- 2025Hyperparameter Transfer Enables Consistent Gains of Matrix-Preconditioned Optimizers Across Scalescited by 21
- 2026Hyperparameter Transfer with Mixture-of-Expert Layerscited by 13
- 2026Decoupled DiLoCo for Resilient Distributed Pre-trainingcited by 4
- 2026Improving Neural Network Training by Decoupling the Magnitude and Direction of Weight Vectorscited by 3
- 2026Towards joint scaling laws with optimal batch size schedulescited by 1
- 2026Abra: Scaling Diffusion Image Trainingcited by 1
- 2026Optimizer Memory Schedules for Outscaling the Overtraining Axiscited by 1
- 2026When is Warmstarting Effective for Scaling Language Models?cited by 0
- 2026Don't Drop Dropout: Optimizing Layer Sparsity for Efficient LLM Training and Inferencecited by 0
- 2026Don't Drop Dropout: Optimizing Layer Sparsity for Efficient LLM Training and Inference4 Sep 2026
- 2026Optimizer Memory Schedules for Outscaling the Overtraining Axis4 Sep 2026
- 2026Abra: Scaling Diffusion Image Training18 Aug 2026
- 2026Towards joint scaling laws with optimal batch size schedules30 Jul 2026
- 2026Improving Neural Network Training by Decoupling the Magnitude and Direction of Weight Vectors24 Jun 2026
- 2026When is Warmstarting Effective for Scaling Language Models?13 May 2026
- 2026Decoupled DiLoCo for Resilient Distributed Pre-training23 Apr 2026
- 2026Hyperparameter Transfer with Mixture-of-Expert Layers28 Jan 2026
- 2025Hyperparameter Transfer Enables Consistent Gains of Matrix-Preconditioned Optimizers Across Scales5 Dec 2025