# Beyond the Matrix Sign: Quadratic Spectral Descent

arXiv: https://arxiv.org/abs/2609.07597 · HTML: https://mlsanity.com/paper/2609.07597/

## Key facts

- Cited by 1 papers in the map (data through 14 Oct 2026).
- Builds on 27 of its 36 references that are in the map.
- First posted on arXiv 7 Sep 2026.

## Builds on (most cited first, 27 of 27)

- [Scaling Laws for Neural Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2001.08361/) (2020)
- [Training Compute-Optimal Large Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2203.15556/) (2022)
- [The FineWeb Datasets: Decanting the Web for the Finest Text Data at Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2406.17557/) (2024)
- [Optimizing Neural Networks with Kronecker-factored Approximate Curvature](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1503.05671/) (2015)
- [Muon is Scalable for LLM Training](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.16982/) (2025)
- [Shampoo: Preconditioned Stochastic Tensor Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1802.09568/) (2018)
- [Limitations of the Empirical Fisher Approximation for Natural Gradient Descent](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1905.12558/) (2019)
- [Old Optimizer, New Norm: An Anthology](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2409.20325/) (2024)
- [Training Deep Learning Models with Norm-Constrained LMOs](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.07529/) (2025)
- [Fast Approximate Natural Gradient Descent in a Kronecker-factored Eigenbasis](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1806.03884/) (2018)
- [The Polar Express: Optimal Matrix Sign Methods and Their Application to the Muon Algorithm](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.16932/) (2025)
- [Fantastic Pretraining Optimizers and Where to Find Them](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2509.02046/) (2025)
- [NorMuon: Making Muon more efficient and scalable](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.05491/) (2025)
- [Practical Efficiency of Muon for Pretraining](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.02222/) (2025)
- [Gluon: Making Muon & Scion Great Again! (Bridging Theory and Practice of LMO-based Optimizers for LLMs)](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.13416/) (2025)
- [A New Perspective on Shampoo's Preconditioner](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2406.17748/) (2024)
- [Isotropic Curvature Model for Understanding Deep Learning Optimization: Is Gradient Orthogonalization Optimal?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2511.00674/) (2025)
- [An Exploration of Non-Euclidean Gradient Descent: Muon and its Many Variants](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.09827/) (2025)
- [The Newton-Muon Optimizer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2604.01472/) (2026)
- [Mousse: Rectifying the Geometry of Muon with Curvature-Aware Preconditioning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.09697/) (2026)
- [HTMuon: Improving Muon via Heavy-Tailed Spectral Correction](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.10067/) (2026)
- [Preconditioned Norms: A Unified Framework for Steepest Descent, Quasi-Newton and Adaptive Methods](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.10777/) (2025)
- [FISMO: Fisher-Structured Momentum-Orthogonalized Optimizer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2601.21750/) (2026)
- [Why Muon Outperforms Adam: A Curvature Perspective](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2606.04662/) (2026)
- [DynMuon: A Dynamic Spectral Shaping View of Muon](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.17109/) (2026)
- [Second-Order Muon Done Right: A Principled Marriage of Spectral Geometry and Curvature](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2608.09763/) (2026)
- [Spectral Allocation: Why Muon Outperforms Adam, and How to Improve Muon](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2608.25990/) (2026)

## Built on by (most cited first, 1 of 1)

- [Does Muon Need Fine-Grained Spectral Shaping?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2610.07497/) (2026)

## Abstract (arXiv)

Muon emerges as a strong competitor of the AdamW for LLM pretraining, because the matrix-wise update it employs can potentially incur smaller second-order penalty than the once dominating AdamW, which performs coordinate-wise update. However, the spectral flattening procedure in Muon is quite debatable since it discards the spectral amplitude information totally. To seek for better spectral allocation (and the associated spectral subspace), we propose to solve the quadratic model of loss function under the spectral norm constraint textitdirectly (i.e., in a genuinely Newtonian way) and thus obtaining the Quadratic Spectral Descent (QSD) algorithm. In contrast, many existing curvature-aware methods either exploit the second-order information in an textitimplicit way by changing the weight update geometry (such as Mousse, FISMO) or rely on strong assumptions (such as the weight displacement isotropy assumption in Newton-Muon). QSD's potential advantage over these methods is best illustrated in the isotropic curvature scenario, where Mousse, FISMO and Newton-Muon all reduce to Muon while the spectral allocation in QSD is still textitnon-flat (since the spectral allocation in QSD depends on the textitgradient to curvature ratio). Meanwhile, to control the complexity of QSD, we employ inversion-free K-FAC and textitonline Frank-Wolfe update which is essentially a matrix sign operator. Overall, the complexity increase can be rather mild. Experiments on GPT pre-training show that QSD consistently improves validation loss over Muon and recent Muon variants, while achieving up to an 8.49% wall-clock speedup at matched validation loss.