# Muse: Representation Geometry of Muon Beyond Normalized Momentum

arXiv: https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.14536 · HTML: https://mlsanity.com/paper/2607.14536/

## Key facts

- Cited by 1 papers in the map (data through 14 Oct 2026).
- Builds on 59 of its 75 references that are in the map.
- First posted on arXiv 16 Jul 2026.

## Builds on (most cited first, 30 of 59)

- [Exploring the Limits of Transfer Learning with a Unified Text-to-Text Transformer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1910.10683/) (2019)
- [Llama 2: Open Foundation and Fine-Tuned Chat Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2307.09288/) (2023)
- [The FineWeb Datasets: Decanting the Web for the Finest Text Data at Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2406.17557/) (2024)
- [DeepSeek-V4: Towards Highly Efficient Million-Token Context Intelligence](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2606.19348/) (2026)
- [Adafactor: Adaptive Learning Rates with Sublinear Memory Cost](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1804.04235/) (2018)
- [Optimizing Neural Networks with Kronecker-factored Approximate Curvature](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1503.05671/) (2015)
- [Muon is Scalable for LLM Training](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.16982/) (2025)
- [Shampoo: Preconditioned Stochastic Tensor Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1802.09568/) (2018)
- [Momentum-Based Variance Reduction in Non-Convex SGD](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1905.10018/) (2019)
- [SPIDER: Near-Optimal Non-Convex Optimization via Stochastic Path Integrated Differential Estimator](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1807.01695/) (2018)
- [Old Optimizer, New Norm: An Anthology](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2409.20325/) (2024)
- [SOAP: Improving and Stabilizing Shampoo using Adam](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2409.11321/) (2024)
- [Training Deep Learning Models with Norm-Constrained LMOs](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.07529/) (2025)
- [Adan: Adaptive Nesterov Momentum Algorithm for Faster Optimizing Deep Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2208.06677/) (2022)
- [Momentum Improves Normalized SGD](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2002.03305/) (2020)
- [Why Transformers Need Adam: A Hessian Perspective](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2402.16788/) (2024)
- [The Polar Express: Optimal Matrix Sign Methods and Their Application to the Muon Algorithm](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.16932/) (2025)
- [Convergence of Adam Under Relaxed Assumptions](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2304.13972/) (2023)
- [Muon Optimizes Under Spectral Norm Constraints](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2506.15054/) (2025)
- [A Note on the Convergence of Muon](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.02900/) (2025)
- [Practical Efficiency of Muon for Pretraining](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.02222/) (2025)
- [A Distributed Data-Parallel PyTorch Implementation of the Distributed Shampoo Optimizer for Training Neural Networks At-Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2309.06497/) (2023)
- [Dion: Distributed Orthonormalized Updates](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.05295/) (2025)
- [AdaMuon: Adaptive Muon Optimizer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2507.11005/) (2025)
- [MARS: Unleashing the Power of Variance Reduction for Training Large Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2411.10438/) (2024)
- [Stochastic Nested Variance Reduction for Nonconvex Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1806.07811/) (2018)
- [ASGO: Adaptive Structured Gradient Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2503.20762/) (2025)
- [PolarGrad: A Class of Matrix-Gradient Optimizers from a Unifying Preconditioning Perspective](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.21799/) (2025)
- [Kronecker-Factored Approximate Curvature for Modern Neural Network Architectures](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2311.00636/) (2023)
- [Lions and Muons: Optimization via Stochastic Frank-Wolfe under Heavy-Tailed Noise](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2506.04192/) (2025)

## Built on by (most cited first, 1 of 1)

- [AF-Muon: An AdamW-Free Muon Optimizer for Tied-Embedding Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2610.01395/) (2026)

## Abstract (arXiv)

Muon-style optimizers apply a polar map to matrix momentum, but their updates also depend on the representation of each parameter block before orthogonalization. We study this representation choice as a form of optimizer geometry and introduce method, a family of Muon-style optimizers that shares the same momentum rule and Newton--Schulz backend across native, nearest-square, skinny, and vector representations. Each Frobenius-isometric representation induces a distinct polar steepest-descent geometry, in which the shorter matrix dimension determines the number of supported singular channels, the pullback scaling, and the constants in stochastic nonconvex convergence bounds. In a teacher--student model, curvature collapse and an isotropic Marchenko--Pastur spectral profile connect early-stage dissipation to the represented nuclear-to-squared-Frobenius norm ratio. Pretraining experiments on LLaMA2-130M and LLaMA2-600M, together with fixed-momentum diagnostics, show that balanced non-native representations can match the performance of the native representation, whereas reducing the shorter dimension weakens the scaling and singular-channel support, leading to behavior that increasingly resembles normalized momentum.