# Max-Window Scale Estimation for Near-Lossless HiF8 W8A8 Quantization-Aware Training

arXiv: https://arxiv.org/abs/2605.26189 · HTML: https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.26189/

## Key facts

- No citing papers in the map yet (data through 14 Oct 2026).
- Builds on 10 of its 13 references that are in the map.
- First posted on arXiv 25 May 2026.

## Builds on (most cited first, 10 of 10)

- [Estimating or Propagating Gradients Through Stochastic Neurons for Conditional Computation](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1308.3432/) (2013)
- [GPTQ: Accurate Post-Training Quantization for Generative Pre-trained Transformers](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2210.17323/) (2022)
- [SmoothQuant: Accurate and Efficient Post-Training Quantization for Large Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2211.10438/) (2022)
- [The FineWeb Datasets: Decanting the Web for the Finest Text Data at Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2406.17557/) (2024)
- [LLM.int8(): 8-bit Matrix Multiplication for Transformers at Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2208.07339/) (2022)
- [An Empirical Study of Catastrophic Forgetting in Large Language Models During Continual Fine-tuning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2308.08747/) (2023)
- [FP8 Formats for Deep Learning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2209.05433/) (2022)
- [Mitigating Catastrophic Forgetting in Large Language Models with Self-Synthesized Rehearsal](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2403.01244/) (2024)
- [FP8-LM: Training FP8 Large Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2310.18313/) (2023)
- [Examining Forgetting in Continual Pre-training of Aligned Large Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2401.03129/) (2024)

## Abstract (arXiv)

Quantization-aware training (QAT) with low-bit floating-point formats enables efficient LLM deployment, yet introduces subtle failure modes invisible to standard training metrics. We present a systematic study of HiF8 W8A8 QAT for OpenPangu-Embedded-1B through the lens of Delayed Tensor Scaling (DTS). Across eight controlled experiments, we identify and disentangle two orthogonal failure modes: (i)amax saturation, where delayed scale estimates silently corrupt knowledge-sensitive representations via forward-pass clipping, and (ii)catastrophic forgetting, where an aggressive learning rate overwrites pretrained commonsense knowledge independently of quantization. Neither is detectable from training loss alone. We address amax saturation with a conservative max-algorithm DTS strategy over a 64-step history window, and mitigate forgetting via a 500-step BF16 warmup followed by QAT at lr=10^{-5}. Both fixes are necessary and sufficient: our final configuration achieves 0.43% MMLU drop, 0.58% HellaSwag drop, and 0.22% ARC-Challenge drop versus a matched BF16 baseline, with a training loss APE of only 0.11% over 10,000 steps.