# NorMuon: Making Muon more efficient and scalable

arXiv: https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.05491 · HTML: https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.05491/

## Key facts

- Cited by 84 papers in the map (data through 14 Oct 2026).
- Builds on 23 of its 34 references that are in the map.
- First posted on arXiv 7 Oct 2025.

## Builds on (most cited first, 23 of 23)

- [Adam: A Method for Stochastic Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1412.6980/) (2014)
- [The Llama 3 Herd of Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2407.21783/) (2024)
- [Scaling Laws for Neural Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2001.08361/) (2020)
- [Megatron-LM: Training Multi-Billion Parameter Language Models Using Model Parallelism](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1909.08053/) (2019)
- [ZeRO: Memory Optimizations Toward Training Trillion Parameter Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1910.02054/) (2019)
- [The FineWeb Datasets: Decanting the Web for the Finest Text Data at Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2406.17557/) (2024)
- [Adafactor: Adaptive Learning Rates with Sublinear Memory Cost](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1804.04235/) (2018)
- [Optimizing Neural Networks with Kronecker-factored Approximate Curvature](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1503.05671/) (2015)
- [GaLore: Memory-Efficient LLM Training by Gradient Low-Rank Projection](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2403.03507/) (2024)
- [Symbolic Discovery of Optimization Algorithms](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2302.06675/) (2023)
- [Muon is Scalable for LLM Training](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.16982/) (2025)
- [Shampoo: Preconditioned Stochastic Tensor Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1802.09568/) (2018)
- [SOAP: Improving and Stabilizing Shampoo using Adam](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2409.11321/) (2024)
- [Adam-mini: Use Fewer Learning Rates To Gain More](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2406.16793/) (2024)
- [Fantastic Pretraining Optimizers and Where to Find Them](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2509.02046/) (2025)
- [Tensor Programs VI: Feature Learning in Infinite-Depth Neural Networks](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2310.02244/) (2023)
- [A Distributed Data-Parallel PyTorch Implementation of the Distributed Shampoo Optimizer for Training Neural Networks At-Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2309.06497/) (2023)
- [Dion: Distributed Orthonormalized Updates](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.05295/) (2025)
- [AdaMuon: Adaptive Muon Optimizer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2507.11005/) (2025)
- [Benchmarking Neural Network Training Algorithms](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2306.07179/) (2023)
- [COSMOS: A Hybrid Adaptive Optimizer for Memory-Efficient Training of LLMs](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.17410/) (2025)
- [A Trace-restricted Kronecker-Factored Approximation to Natural Gradient](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2011.10741/) (2020)
- [Decoder-Hybrid-Decoder Architecture for Efficient Reasoning with Long Generation](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2507.06607/) (2025)

## Built on by (most cited first, 30 of 84)

- [Isotropic Curvature Model for Understanding Deep Learning Optimization: Is Gradient Orthogonalization Optimal?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2511.00674/) (2025)
- [Toto 2.0: Time Series Forecasting Enters the Scaling Era](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.20119/) (2026)
- [The Newton-Muon Optimizer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2604.01472/) (2026)
- [Mousse: Rectifying the Geometry of Muon with Curvature-Aware Preconditioning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.09697/) (2026)
- [MuonEq: Balancing Before Orthogonalization with Lightweight Equilibration](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.28254/) (2026)
- [Muon2: Boosting Muon via Adaptive Second-Moment Preconditioning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2604.09967/) (2026)
- [What Really Matters in Matrix-Whitening Optimizers?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.25000/) (2025)
- [Fantastic Pretraining Optimizers and Where to Find Them II: Hyperball Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2606.16899/) (2026)
- [RMNP: Row-Momentum Normalized Preconditioning for Scalable Matrix-Based Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.20527/) (2026)
- [Adam Improves Muon: Adaptive Moment Estimation with Orthogonalized Momentum](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2602.17080/) (2026)
- [HTMuon: Improving Muon via Heavy-Tailed Spectral Correction](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.10067/) (2026)
- [Rethinking Muon Beyond Pretraining: Spectral Failures and High-Pass Remedies for VLA and RLVR](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.19282/) (2026)
- [Can Muon Fine-tune Adam-Pretrained Models?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.10468/) (2026)
- [TEON: Tensorized Orthonormalization Beyond Layer-Wise Muon for Large Language Model Pre-Training](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2601.23261/) (2026)
- [TrasMuon: Trust-Region Adaptive Scaling for Orthogonalized Momentum Optimizers](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2602.13498/) (2026)
- [MUON+: Towards More Effective Muon via One Additional Normalization Step for LLM Pre-training](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2602.21545/) (2026)
- [Muown: Row-Norm Control for Muon Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.10797/) (2026)
- [Pion: A Spectrum-Preserving Optimizer via Orthogonal Equivalence Transformation](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.12492/) (2026)
- [Why Muon Outperforms Adam: A Curvature Perspective](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2606.04662/) (2026)
- [SOAP, Muon, and Beyond: Pushing LLM Pretraining Scales](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2607.20548/) (2026)
- [Full-bandwidth transformer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2608.08888/) (2026)
- [Ky Fan Norms and Beyond: Dual Norms and Combinations for Matrix Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2512.09678/) (2025)
- [Decoupling Variance and Scale-Invariant Updates in Adaptive Gradient Descent for Unified Vector and Matrix Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2602.06880/) (2026)
- [The Agentic Researcher: A Practical Guide to AI-Assisted Research in Mathematics and Machine Learning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.15914/) (2026)
- [Beyond Muon: MUD (MomentUm Decorrelation) for Faster Transformer Training](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.17970/) (2026)
- [AMUSE: Anytime Muon with Stable Gradient Evaluation](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.22432/) (2026)
- [Spectral Scaling Laws of Muon](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2606.04058/) (2026)
- [Aurora: A Leverage-Aware Spectral Optimizer](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2606.27715/) (2026)
- [Hyperball May Not Be a Free Lunch](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2607.22444/) (2026)
- [Dion3: Full-Stack Orthogonal Updates](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2608.11612/) (2026)

## Abstract (arXiv)

The choice of optimizer significantly impacts the training efficiency and computational costs of large language models (LLMs). Recently, the Muon optimizer has demonstrated promising results by orthogonalizing parameter updates, improving optimization geometry through better conditioning. Despite Muon's emergence as a candidate successor to Adam, the potential for jointly leveraging their strengths has not been systematically explored. In this work, we bridge this gap by proposing NorMuon (Neuron-wise Normalized Muon), an optimizer that synergistically combines orthogonalization with neuron-level adaptive learning rates. Our analysis reveals that while Muon effectively reduces condition numbers, the resulting updates exhibit highly non-uniform neuron norms, causing certain neurons to dominate the optimization process. NorMuon addresses this imbalance by maintaining second-order momentum statistics for each neuron and applying row-wise normalization after orthogonalization, ensuring balanced parameter utilization while preserving Muon's conditioning benefits. To enable practical deployment at scale, we develop an efficient distributed implementation under the FSDP2 framework that strategically distributes orthogonalization computations across devices. Experiments across multiple model scales demonstrate that NorMuon consistently outperforms both Adam and Muon, achieving 21.74% better training efficiency than Adam and 11.31% improvement over Muon on 1.1 B pretraining setting, while maintaining a comparable memory footprint to Muon. Our findings suggest that orthogonalization and adaptive learning rates are complementary rather than competing approaches, opening new avenues for optimizer design in large-scale deep learning.