# RL in Name Only? Analyzing the Structural Assumptions in RL post-training for LLMs

arXiv: https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.13697 · HTML: https://mlsanity.com/paper/2505.13697/

## Key facts

- Cited by 7 papers in the map (data through 14 Oct 2026).
- Placed in Reinforcement learning for reasoning, one of 17 directions in LLM reasoning.
- Builds on 23 of its 32 references that are in the map.
- First posted on arXiv 19 May 2025.

## Placed in

- LLM reasoning / [Reinforcement learning for reasoning](https://mlsanity.com/lr/reinforcement-learning-for-reasoning/)

## Builds on (most cited first, 23 of 23)

- [Proximal Policy Optimization Algorithms](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1707.06347/) (2017)
- [Training Verifiers to Solve Math Word Problems](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2110.14168/) (2021)
- [DeepSeekMath: Pushing the Limits of Mathematical Reasoning in Open Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2402.03300/) (2024)
- [DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via Reinforcement Learning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2501.12948/) (2025)
- [DAPO: An Open-Source LLM Reinforcement Learning System at Scale](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2503.14476/) (2025)
- [Trust Region Policy Optimization](https://mlsanity.com/paper/1502.05477/) (2015)
- [HybridFlow: A Flexible and Efficient RLHF Framework](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2409.19256/) (2024)
- [Understanding R1-Zero-Like Training: A Critical Perspective](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2503.20783/) (2025)
- [Kimi k1.5: Scaling Reinforcement Learning with LLMs](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2501.12599/) (2025)
- [Does Reinforcement Learning Really Incentivize Reasoning Capacity in LLMs Beyond the Base Model?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.13837/) (2025)
- [STaR: Bootstrapping Reasoning With Reasoning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2203.14465/) (2022)
- [RAFT: Reward rAnked FineTuning for Generative Foundation Model Alignment](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2304.06767/) (2023)
- [Reinforced Self-Training (ReST) for Language Modeling](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2308.08998/) (2023)
- [Scaling Relationship on Learning Mathematical Reasoning with Large Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2308.01825/) (2023)
- [L1: Controlling How Long A Reasoning Model Thinks With Reinforcement Learning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2503.04697/) (2025)
- [Beyond Human Data: Scaling Self-Training for Problem-Solving with Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2312.06585/) (2023)
- [VAPO: Efficient and Reliable Reinforcement Learning for Advanced Reasoning Tasks](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.05118/) (2025)
- [Training Language Models to Reason Efficiently](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2502.04463/) (2025)
- [A Minimalist Approach to LLM Reasoning: from Rejection Sampling to Reinforce](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.11343/) (2025)
- [Reinforcement Learning with Verifiable Rewards: GRPO's Effective Loss, Dynamics, and Success Amplification](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2503.06639/) (2025)
- [GRPO-LEAD: A Difficulty-Aware Reinforcement Learning Approach for Concise Mathematical Reasoning in Language Models](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.09696/) (2025)
- [Concise Reasoning via Reinforcement Learning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2504.05185/) (2025)
- [Chain of Thought Imitation with Procedure Cloning](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2205.10816/) (2022)

## Built on by (most cited first, 7 of 7)

- [Reinforcement Learning Meets Large Language Models: A Survey of Advancements and Applications Across the LLM Lifecycle](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2509.16679/) (2025)
- [AVATAR: Reinforcement Learning to See, Hear, and Reason Over Video](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2508.03100/) (2025)
- [Can GRPO Help LLMs Transcend Their Pretraining Origin?](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.15990/) (2025)
- [Local Coherence or Global Validity? Investigating RLVR Traces in Math Domains](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2510.18176/) (2025)
- [Owen-Shapley Policy Optimization: A Principled RL Algorithm for Generative Search LLMs](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2601.08403/) (2026)
- [Breaking the Capability Ceiling of LLM Post-Training by Reintroducing Markov States](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2603.19987/) (2026)
- [Tracing Uncertainty in Language Model "Reasoning"](https://mlsanity.com/paper/2605.07776/) (2026)

## Abstract (arXiv)

Reinforcement learning based post-training of large language models (LLMs) has recently gained attention, particularly following the release of DeepSeek R1, which applied GRPO for fine-tuning. Amid the growing claims around improved reasoning abilities attributed to RL post-training, we critically examine the formulation and assumptions underlying these methods. We start by highlighting popular structural assumptions made in modeling LLM training as an MDP, and show how they lead to a degenerate MDP, that characterizes the problem as a contextual bandit, where RL updates naturally collapse into a form of on-policy variant of outcome-driven supervised learning. The two critical structural assumptions include (1) making the MDP states be just a concatenation of the actions with states becoming the context window and the actions becoming the tokens in LLMs and (2) splitting the reward of a state-action trajectory uniformly across the trajectory. Our comprehensive analysis demonstrates that, due to these simplifying assumptions, GRPO objective reduces to filtered Iterative SFT, an on-policy variant of supervised fine-tuning. Our experiments on benchmarks including GSM8K and Countdown, across a diverse set of model families show that Filtered Iterative SFT, incorporating both positive and negative samples, achieves performance comparable to GRPO-based training. We also show that these structural assumptions indirectly incentivize RL to generate longer sequences of intermediate tokens which in turn feeds into the narrative of "RL incentivizing thinking because it generates longer thinking traces."